Mexico's Drug War

"El Paso Ranks Safest City In US."

Here is an excerpt from this article on KVIA.com:

"For the first time, El Paso has been named the city with the lowest crime rate in the United States with a population of over 500,000 residents. Officials said El Paso Police Chief Greg Allen was proud to announce the ranking, which has just been released by CQ Press in its latest city crime rankings... Since 1997, El Paso has been ranked in the second or third spot of safest cities by this independent study... CQ Press is an independent research firm that conducts various safety studies of cities, metropolitan areas and states." Link to Full Article

Analysis: I wrote a blog post last year after El Paso came in at no. 2 on the list, and I can't say this post will be all that different. However, I did find some things curious in the CQ Press list of both top ten safest AND most dangerous cities:

Lowest Crime Rate Ranking / Highest Crime Rate Ranking 1. El Paso, TX / 1. Detroit, MI 2. Honolulu, HI / 2. Baltimore, MD 3. New York, NY / 3. Memphis, TN 4. San Jose, CA / 4. Washington, DC 5. San Diego, CA / 5. Atlanta, GA 6. Austin, TX / 6. Indianapolis, IN 7. Portland, OR / 7. Philadelphia, PA 8. Los Angeles, CA / 8. Milwaukee, WI 9. Seattle, WA / 9. Houston, TX 10. Fort Worth, TX / 10. Columbus, OH

I haven't checked out the website to see the exact methodology they use for coming up with these rankings, so I'm sure I'm missing something important. I understand plenty of these rankings, like San Jose and Indianapolis. But New York and Los Angeles? Really? They must be using the crime stats in a per 100,000 residents fashion; otherwise, they forgot about Compton. On the flip side, I understand Washington, DC and Baltimore. But why isn't Camden, NJ on the list? I hope it's because it has a population of less than 500,000 (I have no idea if that's the case). And Columbus, Ohio is more dangerous than places in New Jersey?

Anyway, back to El Paso. It's the great dichotomy of the border that the safest city in America is literally a stone's throw away from the most deadly city in Mexico. The reason why the murder rate and otherwise violent crime rate is so low is mostly because El Paso has a really great police force. They know their city, and have a great relationship with citizens - who obviously trust them - and sources who provide them with information useful for fighting crime.

However, a low crime rate doesn't mean that nefarious things aren't going on in El Paso. The Ciudad Juárez/El Paso drug trafficking corridor is the most lucrative along the 2,000 mile-long border. That means that a LOT of illegal drugs are passing from Mexico into the US in and around the El Paso area. That also implies that there are many stash houses in El Paso where these drugs are temporarily stored for cutting, repackaging, local distribution, or shipment to other U.S. markets. That kind of activity doesn't require violence to function. Remember, getting the drugs across the border is the hard part; once they're here, things are easy in comparison. Drug traffickers who work in El Paso have no desire to draw attention to their activities because they know the El Paso PD and Sheriff are good at what they do. So, that means they have to work extra hard to conceal their activities - which involves abstinence from violence.

I do applaud the City of El Paso for their selection, and like I said earlier, the cops in El Paso are some of the best in the business. I just want readers to realize that - again, not to take away from the city - low crime rates don't always mean that bad things aren't happening. 

My comments on cartel leadership changes in KRGV interview...

I was interviewed yesterday for a piece by KRGV News in the Rio Grande Valley on changes in cartel leadership stemming from arrests and deaths. Check out the video here:

http://www.krgv.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=170682%40krgv.web.entriq.net

Just as a note, I did NOT say I knew for sure that Tony Tormenta had been replaced. I said that it was up to Jorge "El Coss" Costilla Sánchez to decide if he wanted to run the Gulf cartel by himself or replace Tormenta by promoting a lieutenant from within. 

Three DTO-related incidents on US soil in six weeks

Here is an excerpt from "One killed in suspected execution style shooting" on Action 4 News/ValleyCentral.com:

"Mission Police are reporting one of two victims dead, after a suspected execution style shooting Tuesday night... The shooting reportedly happened last night near the Cimarron Country Club, at the intersection of Glasscock and Rio Grande Drive. Police say several gunshots were fired... A number of vehicles were seen at the location of the shooting with Mexican license plates. Four suspects are reportedly in police custody, while police continue to look for two more suspects." Link to Full Story

Here is an excerpt from  "Police probe whether beheading was 'hit' from drug cartel" by Mike Sakal in the East Valley Tribune:

"Chandler police are investigating the possibility that the stabbing death and decapitation of a 38-year-old Phoenix resident believed to be an illegal immigrant from Mexico earlier this month was a “hit” by a Mexican drug cartel against a member who betrayed them. Alejandro Cota-Monroy, whose decapitated body was found inside an apartment at 300 West Fairview St. the morning of Oct. 10 amid a bloody and gruesome scene, may have ripped off a Mexican cartel of illegal drugs, according to Chandler police Detective Dave Ramer... Initial media reports indicated that the man’s death could be connected to a Mexican religious ritual, the Saint of Death, because candles and a Ouija border were reportedly found at the scene. But Ramer said the slaying had “nothing to do” with the religion, although drug dealers and drug cartel members are known to participate in it because they believe if they do, it will protect them from law enforcement." Link to Full Article

Here is an excerpt from "Two Zetas executed in Brownsville, Texas" in The Brownsville Herald:

"Authorities have linked Thursday’s double homicide on FM 511 in the northwest outskirts of Brownsville. Texas, to Mexican drug cartels and are investigating the killings as spillover violence from the Tamaulipas war between the Gulf Cartel and Los Zetas. The bodies of Omar Castillo Flores “El Omarcillo”, 25, and Jose Guadalupe Lopez Perez, 38, were found inside a gray Dodge Ram pickup that was riddled with bullets, police spokesman Eddie Garcia said Friday. He said the truck had a Mexican license plate on the back bumper, and he identified both men as residents of Mexico... Brownsville Police Chief Carlos Garcia confirmed the information provided by Mexican law enforcement officials who stated that Omar Castillo and Jose Lopez were members of the Zetas criminal organisation and that Omar Castillo was the younger brother of former Gulf Cartel member Alberto "Beto Fabe" Castillo Flores." Link to Full Article

Analysis: While these three incidents happened in two different states, three different cities, and six weeks apart, they signal a disturbing possibility: Mexican DTOs might be more willing to take risks and engage in violent activity against their selected targets in the US.

Not that violent activity by DTOs on US soil is anything new. In August 2008, four suspects were paid between $400,000 and $450,000 to torture five victims with electric shock and slit their throats in an Alabama apartment. The murders have been tied to a Mexican DTO that transports cocaine, methamphetamine and marijuana. In February 2009, gang members threw an inactive grenade into a strip club in Pharr, Texas. In August 2009, 16 members of the "Los Palillos" gang were indicted for the torture and murder of nine people in San Diego on behalf of a Mexican DTO.

In all fairness, there's no concrete proof (yet) that either the McAllen country club shooting or the Chandler beheading are definitely connected to Mexican DTOs, but I'd be willing to bet money that they are. The real question becomes, are we seeing a trend, or are these three incidents just becoming more noticeable?

We know a couple of things. First, hitmen working for DTOs are starting out younger and younger, which means they lack the experience and expertise of their predecessors. That means hits these days tend to be messier and more public. We also know that some DTOs in some places are getting more desperate to hang on to their territory and their share of drug profits. This means they may be willing to take more risks when it comes to engaging in violent activity on this side of the border.

It's so hard to say because criminals tend to not report crimes committed against them. It could be just a sheer coincidence that these incidents happened within a few weeks of each other, or that the police found out about them; the killers could have just been careless in all three cases. However, I'm a firm believer that once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, and three times is a conspiracy. I prefer not to be an alarmist, but I'm concerned that these incidents were so blatant, and may have been designed to send a message. I'm not raising the red flag just yet, but I know I'll be keeping an eye out for other incidents like this in the next few weeks.

Tune in to "Geraldo at Large" on Fox News this Sunday night...

...if you want to catch me talking on-air and live about the drug war and other border security issues! I'm very excited about this opportunity, and have been waiting/hoping/praying that Fox News would eventually come a'calling. Anyway, I'll be on during the first half of "Geraldo at Large" on Sunday night (Nov. 14), which starts at 10pm EST. Wish me luck!

UPDATE: I was able to get a copy of the segment which included my interview. In case you weren't able to catch it live, here it is (I come on at 5:05):

"Mexico drug gang's offer to disband: Is it for real?"

Here is an excerpt from Tim Johnson's article in McClatchy Newspapers:

"One of Mexico's major narcotics gangs reportedly offered Wednesday to disband if the government would intensify security in the state of Michoacan, the cradle of its drug empire, and keep rival drug gangs out. The offer came in a series of cloth banners and printed flyers in Michoacan state early in the day. Their authenticity couldn't be determined. None of Mexico's major drug cartels has ever made such an offer. Since gangsters don't often give up their lucrative enterprises, the statement by the Michoacan Family, a cartel known for religious zeal, beheadings and tentacles as far as California's Central Valley, was met with skepticism... The author of the 500-word statement lashed out at the central government, playing off intense regional loyalties that often make Michoacan natives suspicious of federal authority." Link to Full Article

Analysis: Shortly after news of LFM's "offer" came out, several of us who follow these sorts of things were debating back and forth on Twitter regarding the authenticity of the banners and flyers. Originally, when people were asking if the offer was fake, I took it to mean people wanted to know if the banners and flyers themselves were truly written by LFM, or put out there by someone else. That didn't make a ton of sense to me, so I'm taking it to mean that people want to know if the offer itself is genuine. If that's the case, then I really doubt it.

LFM is kinda nutty, as DTOs go. You can read plenty about them HERE, but to sum it up, they've been an up-and-comer in Mexico's drug war for a few years now. They're different from other DTOs because they're evangelical in the way they recruit members and reach out to communities to obtain support for their drug operations - whether that support is voluntary or coerced. They started out with a mission to eradicate meth use and kidnapping in Michoacán, but now they're the biggest traffickers of the stuff in the region; that's something to make you snicker. LFM is also extremely aggressive, and is actively expanding their territory to avoid being hemmed in; this is why we're seeing increased violence in Acapulco, in particular. They've taken beheadings and dismemberments as a way to send a message to a whole new level, too.

LFM is into the missives and messages, and making it look like they're on the side of the Mexican people. Of course LFM isn't going to disband any time soon, but even if they were serious in those banners and flyers, they wouldn't have to. Everyone knows the Mexican authorities aren't going to be providing that kind of safety and security to the Mexican people any time soon. Honestly, it's a great PR stunt, and one that we've seen from other violent groups in Mexico and Latin America. The EPR in Mexico, the FARC and ELN in Colombia, Shining Path in Peru...they all need(ed) the support of the peasants in their countries to survive as organizations and move them towards their different goals. LFM wants the support of the Michoacanos by way of not reporting their activities to the police, or joining their ranks - again, whether that support is provided voluntarily or not is irrelevant.

So really, LFM had nothing to lose by offering to disband - assuming they authorized those banners and flyers - even though they likely didn't mean it. They're just calling the Mexican government's bluff, and courting support from the people of Michoacán by trying to come off as the good guys in the drug war. Next, we'll see if they hire a publicist from New York or Los Angeles.

If you live in the Rio Grande Valley area...

...and get KRGV Channel 5 News on ABC, check out their 6pm broadcast tonight (Wednesday, Nov. 11). My voice and picture will be part of a news story Farrah Fazal is doing on recent border violence there. If you can't catch it but want to see it, I'll be posting a link to the story/video after it airs.

UPDATE: Actually, I just found a link to a live feed for KRGV, in case you want to catch the broadcast real-time: http://bit.ly/6gYqvH

UPDATE: Here's the video...

Expert Says Cartel Leader’s Death Fueling Current Violence

Bear with the reporter; there are a few mistranslations from what I told her, especially her last statement about Tijuana. But overall, it's OK.

"Ciudad Mier evacuates after Zetas threaten to kill residents."

Here is an excerpt from this story in The Monitor:

"Hundreds of families have fled thisPueblo Magico amid reported death threats from drug cartel thugs. About 300 people are seeking shelter in nearby Miguel Alemán, the nearest city to this town across the border from western Starr County. Sources said after [Antonio Ezequiel 'Tony Tormenta] Cárdenas’ slaying Friday, members of Los Zetas, the drug cartel controlling Mier, were yelling in the streets that they were going to kill  everybody who remained in the town, sparking the exodus from town. Mexican Army officials in Reynosa and Nuevo Laredo denied knowing of any recent violence in Ciudad Mier. The military sources denied any knowledge about the threats. And today, authorities said they will need to open another shelter... Authorities in Miguel Aleman are helping the people, but nothing is being done to solve the situation in Ciudad Mier." Link to Full Article

And here is an excerpt from a separate but related story by Melissa Del Bosque in The Texas Observer:

"Residents in Mexican border cities including Ciudad Mier and Nuevo Guerrero have been living unde siege-like conditions for the past year. They are living without electricity, water. Their gas stations have been incinerated in a scorched earth campaign to take over the area as a prime drug smuggling route. One resident of Ciudad Mier, said cartel members have threatened to dynamite her town of 6,000 inhabitants, which neighbors Roma, Texas.  With the death of Gulf Cartel capo Tony Tormenta in Matamoros last week, the bloody fighting over territory with the Zeta cartel has escalated  to the point that Ciudad Mier residents started fleeing their town last Friday to take refuge in the neighboring city of Miguel Aleman... A resident of Ciudad Mier in the Monitor article described his city as a ghost town: 'The authorities do not go there. There are no soldiers there. There is nobody,' the former Mier resident said. 'The mayor is not there anymore, there is no police, no traffic authority — nobody. It’s a ghost town. All the businesses are closed. If you want an aspirin, you have to travel to Miguel Alemán, and by bus, because if you drive they take away your car.'" Link to Full Article

Analysis: I'll be the first to admit that I've never heard of Ciudad Mier prior to reading these stories, let alone know about the extent of the violence going on there. This isn't the first time something this extreme has happened there, either. Hundreds of people have reportedly been killed there this year, although there's no official body count. In nearby Nueva Ciudad Guerrero, the town's only gas station has been blown up by narcos, food is in short supply, and federal police forces have moved out - essentially ceding control to the DTOs. On the other side of Ciudad Mier in Ciudad Miguel Alemán, the commander of the state police there had his severed head recently delivered to a nearby military post.

Here's a map image of the area so you can get a better idea of where this is going on. Also, I need to show you something interesting:

You see that large lake in the northwest corner of the map? That's Falcon Lake, where David Hartley was reportedly shot and killed by junior members of Los Zetas last month in a possible case of mistaken identity. So the violent activity in these towns comes as no surprise because we know it's a hotbed of DTO activity.

What does blow my mind is the threats by Los Zetas to kill everyone in the town of Ciudad Mier. The immediate, dramatic, and desperate response by the town tells me these threats were not overestimated, misunderstood, or mistranslated. The threats to kill hundreds of innocent men, women, and children also goes well beyond any traditional definition of activity carried out by mere organized crime.

Here's some raw video of what Ciudad Mier looks like now (i.e. a ghost town), and how its residents are waiting things out in Ciudad Miguel Alemán:

I welcome any civil, logical, and intelligent attempts to convince me that this is just criminal activity and not some form of terrorism. And before you respond, do a little bit of research on the history of the AUC (United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia) and their methods. Just a hint: The AUC had no ideology and no desire to take over the government; they were paramilitaries acting as enforcers for Colombian drug lords. They were also designated a terrorist group by the US government in 2001.

"Authorities Say Cartel Leader’s Death Won’t Curb Violence."

Here is an excerpt from this story on KRGV.com:

"Over the weekend, more than 50 people were killed in several gunbattles in Matamoros. Among the dead, according to Mexican officials, the head of the Gulf Cartel Antonio Ezequiel Cardenas Guillen. Guillen, also known as "Tony Tormenta," was killed along with four of his gunmen. Just one day after his death, rival drug gangs hung signs on bridges and other public places gloating about his death. Authorities said with Cardenas now out of the way, rival Zetas will be even stronger and keep the violence coming, as rival drug gangs battle for power." Link to Full Article

Analysis: As I'm sure most of you have heard or read one way or another, on Nov, 5m Mexican authorities killed Antonio Ezequiel "Tony Tormenta" Cárdenas Guillen, one of the two heads of the Gulf cartel (CDG). Of course what everyone wants to know is, what will this mean for the DTO dynamic in northeastern Mexico, and how will it affect violence levels?

Well, I don't think things are going to get better, but they're not going to necessarily get worse. What happens depends mainly on how quickly Ezequiel can be replaced, if he's going to be replaced at all. What most media outlets are not telling you is that "Tony Tormenta" was not the only guy in charge of the CDG. He shared leadership with Jorge "El Coss" Costilla Sanchez, who is still around and actually has a pretty big price tag on his head - placed there by the US government. As you may know, Ezequiel was the brother of the notorious former CDG leader Osiel Cárdenas Guillen, who was arrested by Mexican authorities in 2003 and extradited to the US in 2007. 

Stratfor has something very interesting to say about Tony and El Coss: "Costilla Sanchez was said to be the operational leader of the cartel, with Tony Tormenta enjoying his position [as the Tamaulipas plaza boss] only due to his relationship to his brother, Osiel. In many ways, Tony Tormenta’s death could prove beneficial to Gulf cartel operations." I haven't read anything about Ezequiel being replaced by a lieutenant being promoted from within the CDG, so it's possible that Costilla Sanchez will try to maintain control of the CDG on his own.

If you hadn't heard, Los Zetas have been fighting with the CDG for control of the Texas-Mexico border region for the better part of a year and a half. Los Zetas will likely see Ezequiel's death as an opportunity to wrest control of some plazas - particularly Reynosa and Matamoros, from the CDG. However, I agree with Stratfor's assessment that the CDG will likely be prepared for this. I said in my interview with John Vause on CNN International a few days ago that I think this will be just a hiccup for the CDG. Yes, they've been weakened by Los Zetas and Mexican government actions over the last couple of years, but they still have plenty of fight left in them. We'll probably see more violence in northeastern Mexico over the next month or two as Los Zetas test the waters, but I think things will eventually go back to how they were in Tamaulipas before Ezequiel's death...at least until someone picks off Costilla Sanchez, that is. Then you'll be seeing another post from me on the CDG's fate.

Read more: Mexico Security Memo: Nov. 8, 2010 | STRATFOR 

If you get CNN International, keep an eye out for me...

I just finished an interview with CNN International (my first!), during which I talked about Ezequiel Cardenas Guillen's death, its impact on drug-related violence, and other drug war issues. If you actually get that channel at your US location (I don't with DirecTV), then keep an eye out for me throughout the day's coverage and tomorrow morning, and let me know if I was any good!

UPDATE: 20 kidnap victims in Acapulco may have had ties to La Familia

On Nov. 1, Stratfor published a security memo indicating the 20 male tourists kidnapped in Acapulco a couple of weeks ago had ties to La Familia Michoacana. Here's a brief excerpt from the report:

"A group of 20 tourists from Morelia, Michoacan state, reportedly kidnapped Oct. 1 in the Costa Azul neighborhood of Acapulco, Guerrero state, was sent on orders from La Familia Michoacana (LFM), Reforma reported Oct. 26, citing Mexican federal security sources. According to the report, LFM sent 22 men to Acapulco (two of the men eluded capture) to “heat up” the region as part of its struggle with its rivals from the Cartel de la Sierra, headed by Edgar “La Barbie” Valdez Villarreal. Some of their objectives reportedly included assassinating the mayors of Acapulco and nearby San Marco and attacking area schools. Mexican authorities learned that Valdez Villareal had ordered the kidnapping of the 20 during the interrogation of Isidro “El Quirri” Juarez Solis, allegedly the plaza boss for the Acapulco region for the Cartel de la Sierra, whom they detained several days after the 20 were kidnapped." 

Analysis: The folks at Stratfor don't believe the men are tourists, and for the most part are going with the information they received from the federal police. I can't say that I'm too surprised by the information, but sending 22 guys with no criminal record to assassinate all those high-level people? Even Stratfor claims those goals are very ambitious by Mexican standards, and I believe they're even more ambitious for a smaller - albeit increasingly powerful - DTO like La Familia. Plus, the Reforma source Strafor is using is someone within the federal police. Maybe I'm getting too cynical for my own good, but there's the possibility that for PR purposes, the feds want the public to believe those men were "bad guys" and not innocents being kidnapped and mass-murdered in a major tourist town. Yes, they could have been dirty too, like everyone else, but....I don't know.

Now you have to throw into the mix the fact that on Nov. 3, 18 bodies were found in a mass grave near Acapulco. There hasn't been any confirmation yet that the bodies are 18 of the 20 men who were kidnapped. However, also on Nov. 3, a video was posted on the Internet of two men being interrogated about the kidnapping. An Associated Press story reported they killed "the Michoacanos" in an act of revenge against La Familia, and were ordered to bury those bodies in Tres Palos outside Acapulco. The same story also reports Guerrero state investigators say they corroborated the men worked as mechanics and had no criminal records. Investigators also say they could find no evidence linking the men to any gang and have speculated the group may have been targeted by mistake.

So which is it? La Familia operatives sent to assassinate several high-level and extremely difficult targets who were targeted for kidnapping and death by a rival cartel? Or tourists who were victims of mistaken identity? Both stories are plausible, and while I have several tons of respect for the analysts at Stratfor, I don't know that the federal police and subsequent Reforma story completely passes the smell test. Even the YouTube video of the interrogation could be DTO propaganda taking advantage of the situation. If those men were targeted accidentally, no one will ever really know because dead bodies in a mass grave aren't too chatty. We'll see what else comes out of the investigation over the next few weeks.

How the 2010 mid-term elections might affect border security initiatives

I'm not huge on following politics, but it's a reality that our elected officials in the southwest states have much to do with border security initiatives. I don't live in California anymore, so I wasn't following the races there very closely. However, I took a look at the races in all four southwest border states, and saw some interesting results that I want to briefly comment on here.

Analysis: Let's start with the governors' races. In California, Jerry Brown - a liberal Democrat - defeated Meg Whitman, the Republican candidate, to take over Arnold Schwarzenegger's job in January. In Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, the three Republican candidates won their races, with Rick Perry in Texas being the only incumbent staying in place. Moving to the House of Representative races, most of them in all four border states were won by Republicans. However, one of the two border districts in California, both border districts in Arizona, and three of the five border districts in Texas were won by Democrats. John McCain, a Republican, won the Senate race in Arizona, and Barbara Boxer, a Democrat, won the Senate race in California.

Now, obviously the responsibilities of the border governors and members of Congress are mostly different when it comes to border security. However, they do cross paths when it comes to funding and introducing border security legislation. I'm sure all the winners in yesterday's border races want a secure southwest border, but they may have different ways of getting there based on their personal beliefs and pressures from their political parties.

For example, the three Republican border governors are likely to skewer the Obama Administration for not doing enough to secure the border. They'll complain that not enough National Guard troops have been sent to their states, that they don't have enough federal funding to complete sections of border fences in their states, and that their police departments and Sheriff's officers are undermanned and ill-equipped to deal with current threats posed by DTOs in Mexico. They may also begin efforts to enact stronger anti-illegal immigration laws in their states á la SB 1070 in Arizona, depending on how the federal appeals court review of the measure goes. 

Moving to the weapons trafficking issue, you'll likely see the three Republican governors pushing to prevent the reinstatement of the expired assault weapons ban, whereas you may see Jerry Brown and the Democratic congressional representatives pushing to enact much more restrictive gun laws as an answer to the trafficking problem. With a Republican-controlled House, it's extremely unlikely that any new federal firearms measures will be introduced, much less pass, but that doesn't mean that the public rhetoric can't increase.

Democratic representatives may also push to ease restrictions placed on illegal immigrants, which could affect the ability of law enforcement to suss out DTO members or other criminals mixed in with illegals just looking for work in the US. Again, with a Republican-controlled Congress and three Republican border governors, we probably won't see too many changes in the immigration system. This is a shame because we all know it needs to be fixed; just no one in DC is going to be able to agree on exactly how it should get fixed.

I was mildly surprised to see Proposition 19 in California get defeated, although at 54% against and 46% in favor, it was relatively close. President Calderón in Mexico is breathing more easily, as is President Santos in Colombia. I don't know that legalizing marijuana in only California would have made much difference to the DTOs' financial bottom line. If Prop 19 had passed, Mexican DTOs would have faced stiffer competition from domestic growers. However, there would have been and still is a huge market for Mexican marijuana in the rest of the country.

So overall, I see the three Republican governors joining together to be very vocal in the general direction of Washington, DC regarding what they feel is necessary to secure the border, and I see the Democratic representatives trying to introduce some liberal firearms and immigration measures, but not meeting with much success.

Again, I'm not a political analyst, so this is all just speculation. As always, I welcome any intelligent comments that fall within the realm of civil discourse.